Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr., Superintendent of Grand Rapids Public Schools interviewed by Catherine Ettinger of Grand Rapids Insight (formerly Inside Grand Rapids) 2007-10-12
Announcer: Welcome to Grand Rapids Insight, a weekly show featuring interviews with community leaders, business leaders and individuals who are committed to building a stronger future and now, here is your host for Grand Rapids Insight, Catherine Ettinger.
Catherine Ettinger: Welcome to Inside Grand Rapids. This week we are joined in the Foxbright Podcast studio by Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.; Dr. Taylor is a Superintendent of Grand Rapids Public Schools. Grand Rapids Public is the third largest district in Michigan. Welcome Dr. Taylor; it is a pleasure to have you on our show.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: And it is a pleasure to be here. Thank You.
Catherine Ettinger: As a large urban school, the challenges and the issues are many and varied and you could read about them all over the place.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Sure.
Catherine Ettinger: What are the opportunities, the positives that come with being a large urban district? What are the strengths of the Grand Rapids Public School?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: The number one strength that we have are our extraordinary students and their families. We serve everybody. I am not sure that people understand that - people always talk about, well; you know your moment is declining and that is a fact. But, we are serving the students who present the most educational need. If you look around us, if you look at the numbers of children who, for example have left the district; the children who have left the district by and large are children who educationally will behold.
Catherine Ettinger: Right, when somebody is watching out for them but they do not think they will have it.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Right, but there are children who are not - almost 80% of our students are qualified for free and reduced lunch. If you look around this county, there is no where near that. Most people have half that. If half that population - 25% of our students have special needs. Roughly, 20-25% - English is not their native language.
Now, are we shying away from that? Are we saying, "Poor pitiful us?" Absolutely not. We embrace that challenge. I am grateful that we serve those children and we are going to do well, but our issue is how do you meet the needs of these children in a resource challenged environment? This district has been extraordinarily creative about doing that. It is forged ahead and it is still making progress.
It is looking for opportunities, to partner with different entities to provide additional resources so that staff and students can continue to move forward. When I think it is done is it is energized people to say, 'Okay, this is our reality. We are not going to stand on the sidelines and just say poor pitiful us." We are just going to say, "Hey, when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade and that is what we are doing."
Catherine Ettinger: Absolutely, how large is Grand Rapids Public, how many buildings are spread out around different schools?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Roughly, 63. We are serving close to a little over 20,000 students, Pre-K to grade twelve. We have a number of specialty centers that service special need students from all over Kent County, a number of alternative education programs to meet the needs of students who have things that require a different way to educate them. An Adult Education Program - so you name it, we run a variety of programs, but again, we are -- the strength of our district is reflected in our students and the diverse backgrounds and circumstances that they come from. But that is what our strength is.
Catherine Ettinger: It is wonderful. There are many changes going on here, you have alluded to a few of them within Grand Rapids Public. There is new and improved buildings, there is administrative reorganization, there is shifting to trimesters for next year.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Yes.
Catherine Ettinger: What are some of the other changes or what are you most proud of in the changes that are going on?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Well, what I am most proud of is that what we are trying to do is to make a conscious effort to cultivate leadership at our levels. It is not just at the central office levels, at the building level and it is not just our principals and vice-principals is to look at teachers taking more of an active lead and looking at instruction and instructional improvements.
So, that is one thing. We were very, very grateful to receive a grant from The Doug & Maria DeVos Family Foundation to help support our professional development work over the next few years and we are working hand in hand with the foundation and with the Institute for Learning out of the University of Pittsburg to look at how we can enhance our ability to offer quality instruction to students.
We have looked administratively at how we can provide more support for each building in terms of professional development and in terms of instructional improvement and some first rate people have emerged to take leadership roles in those areas. You mentioned trimesters next year, we are going to look at a way to offer students more opportunities for different courses, but offering them differently.
Catherine Ettinger: So, larger in number, is it a block schedule as well or...
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: It will be more of a traditional schedule than a block but each - the trimesters will have a different block that the students will be able to be exposed to. So, again the planning that is going into that also is very, very collaborative because we have been visiting other school districts in the county and I think that is another thing that I am grateful for to is the excellent working relationship that we have with our neighboring school districts and with the Kent Intermediate School District. The superintendent of the ISD, Kevin Kanjorski is a very valuable, valuable partner to our district, but I am so impressed by all of my colleagues from -- Sara Showboe (ph) in East Grand Rapids. Dan Baimen (ph) in Forest Hills, Mike Sterns in Northview, John Felski in Wyoming, you name it. We have some - there is a lot of talent in this area, so Kent County is...
Catherine Ettinger: So, it is a powerful region?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Oh, my gosh! Yeah, Kent County has coined at the market I think in an Educational expertise. So, but that extends to our relationship with the universities, Grand Valley, through Dr. Haas, Pat Old; those individuals again have just brought out the red carpet. So I do not know...
Catherine Ettinger: Is that a high level of commitment and involvement from everyone?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: You know, there really is. You do not - what I have not experienced here is people throwing up their hands and saying out that is just a school district.
Catherine Ettinger: Just the way it is, you can not do anything about it.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: That is very different for me, I mean because there was almost that kind of hands-off attitude in Kentucky City. It is like people were really skittish and weary about working with the school district, but that is not the case here. I think the other thing that has greatly helped me and certainly facilitated those types of relationships is the work of our school board. I am very, very fortunate to work at the direction of those individuals because they are a hardworking group of individuals who put the needs of students first at all times. So, it really makes it quite easy for me to do my job.
Catherine Ettinger: Yeah. I think that is a reflection that we see at all levels in the area -- there is a high level commitment.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: And it is always a work in progress. It is always a work in progress. So, I just feel that I am in good - we are at a good point in our working relationship and we are going to keep building on that.
Catherine Ettinger: Excellent. Last year you started a district advisory council to really maximize parent and community involvement. How is that evolving? What to be seen?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Again, when you ask me the question about the strengths of our district, it is also the parents and I am actually looking forward to our first meeting. It is October 22 at 6'o clock and I have run into parents who were on the group last year and they say, "When is our first meeting?"
So, that makes me feel good that people look forward to this. The benefit that that group has been to me is there is such an excellent sounding board, because my goal is to get people as I am involved in the decision making process as we possibly can have people involved because buying is very, very critical if you are going to really get a proposition off the ground or to move work forward.
Catherine Ettinger: The momentum.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Exactly and it is important to me that people know what we are doing. Everybody is not always going to agree on everything. I mean, that is not a realistic expectation but everybody can be informed. Everybody can have an opportunity to give input and to be part of the process that leads to certain decisions and I really want to make sure that we create as many avenues and vehicles that will allow people to have their voice heard. I think the more as a school district we do that, a number of things occur.
One, everything is above board and transparent. Again, I can not please everybody and I am at a stage in life now where I do not even try any more. I realize that as hard as you can work to try to please everybody, invariably, somebody is not going to be happy. So, what you...
Catherine Ettinger: You know what makes life exciting is the diversity of thought.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: This is true, this is true. But again, when you bring people in and they know what is going on, they know why certain decisions have to be made and they have a hand in making those decisions then even if they are not completely happy they can say, my voice was heard and not only my voice was heard, but I was made to feel welcome in providing that voice and that is equally important to me.
Catherine Ettinger: Right and also for the parents, they will think, as they become more involved, their level of understanding of what goes into the different decisions and why one decision would be made over another even with all of the input has got to go up to their level of comfort and understanding of the decisions has got to go up as well.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Well, sure I think again, we as an industry, education as an industry sometimes forgets who the client is and our client tell our students and their parents and I do not have all the answers. So, the more people you can have sitting around the table and participating in the process increases are likely who that you are going to come up with something that can have some sustainability and have the best chance of getting the most desired results. I think that as educators and certainly as school systems, we have to do more to make sure that people feel welcome, to be part of processes.
So, it is something as simple as just plain old common courtesy and follow through. But again, we have a high caliber of parents that support our schools and support our students and there are parents who go beyond the common duty in their service to not only their children's school, but to the other children in the school. I have seen parents step up and take on mentoring roles for children because the parents of those children have other issues that you are dealing with. So, again other necessary ingredients are there, other necessary ingredients are there.
Catherine Ettinger: In addition to being a school, you are also a community resource. What are some of the community programs that you provide or that the district is involved in?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Well, the district is involved in a major initiative called the Kent School Services Network which really is an excellent collaboration between our County Government, many of the major philanthropic organizations in the city and the county and obviously, the school district and surrounding school districts as well.
The goal of this program is to coordinate and to in some instances, consolidate in a one stop shop environment to the school. Many of the social services that our students and their families utilize in order to deal with their day to day issues, I think it showed a lot of foresight on the part of those who are involved in the initial planning, meetings and discussions about creating this type of collaborative. But, just in its inaugural year which was last year, a lot of positive results have accrued in terms of connecting families with resource providers, with using the services of many of these community providers to assist a district with things like improving attendance and reducing the number of students who return so and so forth.
So, I think again that type of community schools, community collaboration piece is something that I would like to see more of, but it is off to a great start with the Kent School Services Network. I think the other types of community endeavors that really make a significant difference, the United Way, which is a very valuable partner to the school district is embarking upon a campaign to recruit 2000 mentors. I believe that they will reach that very, very ambitious goal. But the goal is to make sure that students have mentors who can assist them with reading or other types of things, so that more and more children experience success in school and then persist on through middle and High School to go into college. It is that kinds of foresight that again, on the part of the broader community that I think will make a significant difference in the district.
But just in terms of the relationships that individual schools have with corporate partner such as AltaCore, Spectrum Health, Blue Cross Blue Shield, you name the organization or the Church, the amount of support that we receive from the religious community for our schools for volunteer programs, I think to many tutoring programs where if there is a Church nearby, the congregation is coming over and tutoring at lunch time or doing things for the children, it speaks volume.
So, our job is to cultivate that. I know sometimes people get a little impatient because we have so many people that we have to do security screenings on, but that goes to showing that people are anxious to volunteer and they just want to speed up the bureaucratic things, so that they can get to it and work with students.
So, again it is one of those types of things again that I look at and say, we just have to keep enhancing and building upon these relationships and I think we will be fine.
Catherine Ettinger: Working individuals or companies that are not involved due to help make Grand Rapids to look up at the goal of making it the best learning environment possible for the students. Is there a particular involvement that is most useful as the United Way Mentoring Program? It will be a way to go or...
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: I think there is one way, but I think one thing that I want to get across to people because I think that people always want to look at the Grand Rapids Public School as the poor pitiful, poor School District. I feel like we are the Britney Spears of the educational environment here because everything we do is scrutinized to the nth degree and that is okay.
When you enlargen to the, you have to welcome that kind of scrutiny. But, I think what I hope people will come to understand about the Grand Rapids Public School is that, it should be viewed as an entity that like the glass is half full as opposed to being half empty. It has its challenges, but what large entity does not. But in terms of the things that it does, we are meeting the needs of students, can we do better? Sure. Will we do better? Sure.
There is always this concern about rules are fine and this, that and the other. These schools are entities where the vast majority of students go to school every single day without incident. They go to school without incident, they go to school without problems and if there are things - there are things that are situations that we can rectify. I am not naive enough to not be concerned about situations such as those that occurred this week in Philadelphia or Cleveland, but I have enough confidence in our students that if we pay attention to the warning signs, we can make sure that our students as they are now continue to be safe. Do we have fights at school? Sure we do, but...
Catherine Ettinger: I have them in my house.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: But I guess my point is if you tilt a news camera around and you just drive around to every school in the county, I am sure you could find a fight in everywhere. The only difference is that our fight seems to make it to the news. I was disappointed that one of the news outlets here chose to give airtime to an individual who assaulted one of our employees. I do not think it is appropriate to give airtime to someone who has done something that in my estimation is unconscionable behavior. I do not think you do that. I think as a community, we have to start asking ourselves, do we want this to be a diminished entity? Because this is how I looked at this too. Not only do we educate children, but we are one of the largest employers in the city if not the county.
I do wonder if anybody has assessed what the impact would be if the Grand Rapids Public Schools collapses financially. I think we have to start paying attention to that because we are getting precariously close to our financial tipping point. Well, has anybody stopped to think about the number of jobs that the district provides? Has anybody stopped to think about the number of businesses who serve as suppliers to School District and the revenues that those companies generate as a result of the business that it has with the School District? Has anybody taken their time to assess what type of economic engine the School District is in this county and in this region and if it falls, what the implications of that will be? I have only been here for a year and half and I did not - these conditions did not just start happening.
So, these are questions that I have to start asking people because in the long run, this is the quality of life issue. Not only is it about the quality of life as it relates to the education of these children, but it is about the quality of life that this region may have if in fact, the largest School District in this region is in some type of financial ruins. Now, this is not through mismanagement, this is not through malfeasance, this is not through anything other than - we are not looking at educational need as we look at how a school district like Grand Rapids is financed and I think that is a question that we need to put out in the public domain for discussion. Can we allow this to be a diminished entity when it is serving those who have the most need?
Catherine Ettinger: Right and the answer?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: The answer from me is that as a community, I think we are going to have to figure out what the answer is but this is the premise that we start from. Let us stop viewing this as something that is diminished, let us stop viewing it as something that is unmanageable or ungovernable or that there is a high spread level of incompetence that is just not the case. What this district has managed in the spite of some overwhelming financial odds to continue to meet the needs of the population it serves while at the same time pairing expenses, cutting $60 million, over $60 million over a seven to nine year period with no commensurate decrease in the level of services that it provides.
Now, I do not know of any governmental entity that has done that. The other thing with the bond process that voters approved four years ago, $165 million, nine building were constructed, renovated, numerous repair, renovation projects in all schools went on and through excellent financial stewardship, enough money was saved to create a tenth project. I want someone to find me anywhere else in this region, this state or in this country with that type of financial oversight and that type of planning and management resulted in a cost savings to tax payers so much so that a tenth project has been created.
So, there is not a lack of talent here, there is not a lack of commitment and concern here. What is required here is one word that begins with the letter T and that is Time and that is time to move forward and if we are given that time and maybe like Britney Spears, maybe we can become a little less of a focus of scrutiny for every little thing that we do. Perhaps people will say that this is not only going to move forward, but it is going to move forward in a way that will surprise many, many people.
Catherine Ettinger: Yeah, when I think about our business, we get the opportunity to change all aspects of it, we are able to change the product that we deliver, we are able to change the way we deliver and we are able to change the way we price it and collect on it. So, when we need to make changes, we can affect them across the board, whereas your product is changing and your customer is changing as societies evolve. That happens naturally but you are not really in a position yet to immediately be able to effect change on the pricing and the collections on some of the others so you do not get the whole piece, but it beats to the time.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: But our bottom-line is that we serve and we happily serve, we proudly serve and my hope is that we competently serve those who walk in our door and however they present themselves. We do not have the luxury of saying, we are going to take you, you however, we are not too sure about.
Catherine Ettinger: You are more expensive, we are not going to...
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: We are like the Statue of Liberty. Give us your tide or pour your huddle mass as you are earning to breath free and we will take up from that...
Catherine Ettinger: That will be United States of America.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: That is it, well, and you know what, that is what we have.
Catherine Ettinger: Right. In terms of The Grand Rapids and the region, how do you see Grand Rapids and the region evolving over the next years? What do you see as a future?
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Again, I want to go back to the point that I made earlier and I think your question is excellent. I think that we are at a point where some critical decisions are going to have to be made. Again, I am not trying to play disguise, fall in disguise but I am not going to sugar coat or deny the fact that the district is financially challenged. Is it moving to a point of being financially distressed? That is one of those kinds of issues that time will tell. Obviously, some of the things that are coming out of lancing now would be adoption of a new budget, hold some promise for school districts like Grand Rapids and we are going to see how that outplays itself out.
But I think again, the broader conversation in the context of Grand Rapids, Kent County for me is looking at the school district not only as an educational institution, but what it also is as a provider of job, as a conduit for resources that support many, many businesses in this region and also the fact that many people who work for the school district, live in Grand Rapids or live within Kent County and as an economic driver, if it has to make some drastic changes, what does that do overall to quality of life, both in Grand Rapids and Kent County and I think it is time for the good people of both the city and the county who I believe again, possess a lot of compassion and talent to look at the broader context of these issues and look at ways to resolve it.
I do not know what that answer is. Is it consolidation to school districts? I do not think that that is unlikelihood; I just do not think they see that happening. But are there other ways that we can work collaboratively so that Grand Rapids is in a better position to ride its financial ship, serve the population that is emerging as the one that we are going to serve. We are going to always be the district I believe that will serve the highest proportion of the students on free and reduced lunch, the highest proportion of students who have special needs, the highest proportion of students where English is not their native language. If that is who we are going to be, we embrace that we welcome it, we think it is great, but we also have to say, we need the resources in order to meet the needs of those children.
So, how can we collaboratively look at, how we take all this into consideration in the fashion a one county, one city focus, so that everybody is impacted in a positive way. I think it can be done. As a matter of fact, I know it can be done. I will even go so far as to say this. If it can not be done here, it will not be done anywhere else. I think there is enough compassion, goodwill and common sense in this region, in Kent County and in Grand Rapids that we can attack and solve any problem that really presents itself, that is as much confidence as I have in the people here.
Catherine Ettinger: Dr. Taylor, I want to thank you for taking the time to be with us today and for sharing information about the Grand Rapids Public School District.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: Well, thank you for again, this opportunity and again, I am certainly -- if any of your listeners would like to get more information about the Grand Rapids Public Schools, we certainly ask them to visit our website. We are renovating that, but it is www.grps.k12.mi.us and we are going to do some of the show in that too and to our parents, October 22, Monday, Franklin Campus, please be there because we are going to have a good time.
Catherine Ettinger: Wonderful, thank you very much.
Dr. Bernard Taylor Jr.: It is great.
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